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Jason

Google cancels all-hands diversity meeting over safety concerns

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Jason    5,982
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Questions submitted by employees on the company's internal network "appeared externally this afternoon, and on some websites Googlers are now being named personally," Google CEO Sundar Pichai wrote in an email announcing the cancellation. "Googlers are writing in, concerned about their safety and worried they may be 'outed' publicly for asking a question in the Town Hall."

 

 

Gee, I can't possibly imagine why Googlers would be worried fearful of reprisal for speaking their minds at work!

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/google-cancels-all-hands-diversity-meeting-over-safety-concerns/

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Lucian04    5,276
1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

 

Gee, I can't possibly imagine why Googlers would be worried fearful of reprisal for speaking their minds at work!

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/google-cancels-all-hands-diversity-meeting-over-safety-concerns/

 

Yeah, I'm preparing a massive thread about the Google Memo. Should be ready by Saturday or Sunday.

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Jason    5,982
3 minutes ago, Lucian04 said:

 

Yeah, I'm preparing a massive thread about the Google Memo. Should be ready by Saturday or Sunday.

 

Get a job, libtard. 

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Mithan    198
5 hours ago, Lucian04 said:

 

Yeah, I'm preparing a massive thread about the Google Memo. Should be ready by Saturday or Sunday.

The google letter was very accurate. Sad people can't discuss the truth any more.  Guy shouldn't of been fired either. 

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SFLUFAN    9,253
6 hours ago, Lucian04 said:

 

Yeah, I'm preparing a massive thread about the Google Memo. Should be ready by Saturday or Sunday.

I can hardly wait :/

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legend    2,691

I found the google memo rather unimpressive and missing the point. But it's pretty shitty that people are publicly leaking further internal discussions in the company.

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Lucian04    5,276
2 hours ago, legend said:

I found the google memo rather unimpressive and missing the point. But it's pretty shitty that people are publicly leaking further internal discussions in the company.

 

Care to elaborate? I'm interested in your opinion.

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legend    2,691
12 minutes ago, Lucian04 said:

 

Care to elaborate? I'm interested in your opinion.

 

Sure. I'll write something slightly more detailed up later tonight, got to run for now.

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Dodger    1,297
10 hours ago, Mithan said:

The google letter was very accurate. Sad people can't discuss the truth any more.  Guy shouldn't of been fired either. 

 

 

Dude did end up getting fired? 

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Rev    2,754

I didn't have much issue with it. It's not really appropriate for the workplace but from what I understand, he wrote it for a group called Coffee Beans that Google set up for internal discussion about gender diversity.  It's not something I would have written (and if I did, I wouldn't differentiate between social and biological causes of preferences the way he did since they're both the same ultimately) but I didn't really have a problem with it.

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Rev    2,754

His recommendations of discriminatory practices they should stop doing seemed pretty good but I would have just left it at that. The ideas he suggested to increase diversity seemed kind of shitty and half-hearted.

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legend    2,691
6 hours ago, Lucian04 said:

 

Care to elaborate? I'm interested in your opinion.

 

Okay here we go.

 

Ultimately, I found the memo very amateurish, failing to make good arguments, and trivializing how unacceptable the current situation is in CS. The latter part is why I imagine it evokes some ire from people. Although as people, especially people on the internet, are wont to do, they'll villainize it even further than necessary. The twitter-sphere response on both sides I've found kind of gross.

 

To be clear, I think there are some relevant questions to ask about hiring practices or things like affirmative action in general. I often feel unsure about what is appropriate and I've certainly seen some pretty outrageous policy suggestions from the fringe left that I absolutely disagree with. But this memo failed to raise any meaningful points for consideration.

 

It starts (or at least the re-released one with some reaction to the responses) with him claiming he understands sexism exists. This is kind of where he should have stopped :P Indeed, there are absolutely issues within CS and because they exist we should be trying to fix them. Instead, however, the memo spends most of its efforts then trying to downplay whether there are any problems at all, trying to chalk it up to just general demographic and life choices that cannot be helped. This kind of argument is completely at odds with the initial concession that sexism still exists. His concession is completely worthless if it's just going to be followed by "but in insignificant quantities."

 

Another part of the memo is this completely bizarre and out of place discussion of what "liberals" and "conservatives" value. It's so incredibly biased and sloppy an analysis I don't know where to begin. The only thing I can make of this nonsense is he's trying to play up that he's super practical and worried that the "liberals" at google are compassionate to the point of sacrificing practicality. But the arguments that follow don't illustrate such a criticism if that was his hope. It again, is mostly a dismissal that there are any issues at all followed by him being overly concerned that google's practices are unfair to white guys. For someone so interested in practicality and compassion at the cost of it, worry about something as esoteric as "fairness" is laughable. A far more reasonable practicality argument would have started with a productivity objective to maximize and then presented data and arguments about how current hiring practices our antithetical to it. Or alternatively an argument about how diversity has limited ability to increase productivity to warrant the extra efforts.

 

He does, at one point, offer "fair" ways to encourage diversity. Things google already does and are far too minor to have significant impacts. His offered solution is effectively the status quo, while removing other approaches google is taking. Great.

 

The whole thing just reeks of an arm chair expert analysis that holds itself far more insightful than it actually is. People often make fun of psychology and other social sciences for poor non-rigorous analysis offered with far more weight than they deserve. The kind of reasoning in this memo is basically what people have in mind when they make fun of those fields. I can't imagine it ever being persuasive in an intellectually honest way and at best has mostly just rallied people who already held a position on this topic on either side of the fence.

 

 

So is he a vile person deserving on condemnation? No. But his memo is useless garbage.

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Rev    2,754

We talked about this some already privately but I'll add a few points here for others. I agree the memo wasn't very helpful. I really think he should have left his half-hearted recommendations out of it and made it entirely a criticism of the supposedly sexist "diversity" and "inclusion" initiatives that he's claimed in interviews were the real motivation for writing the piece in the first place. The only interesting part of all of this, imo, is the reaction he got from the left. It was overwhelmingly intellectually dishonest in its attempts to vilify him as a bigot and that dishonesty came from pretty significant sources imo. My opinion about whether or not he should have been fired for it hinges completely on whether or not it's true that he was called upon by Google to share his opinions on gender diversity (he claims he was, in an internal discussion group called "Coffee Beans." If not, it probably wasn't wise to share this kind of argument in the workplace.

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