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ManUtdRedDevils

Oculus Rift (+ Oculus Touch) is $399 for limited time

25 posts in this topic

I'm waiting for 2nd gen at least. The current resolution is too low for my taste.

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2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I'm waiting for 2nd gen at least. The current resolution is too low for my taste.

I think of this as VRs PS1 generation. The novelty of VR (like the novelty of 3D in PS1's day) is currently overcoming the tech limits, but damn if the current resolutions and FOV won't be laughable in 5 years. 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Tempting... But with Vive and PSVR already purchased, what can the Rift offer me? 

 

@stepee

 

$400 less in your bank account :) ?

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37 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

I think of this as VRs PS1 generation. The novelty of VR (like the novelty of 3D in PS1's day) is currently overcoming the tech limits, but damn if the current resolutions and FOV won't be laughable in 5 years. 

 

Not to mention the size and weight of the headsets. A friend of mine has a Vive and I'm very impressed with it, but I don't think I'd play it enough to justify buying it myself (most of the games he has can be completed in an hour or two).

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10 minutes ago, Dexterryu said:

 

Not to mention the size and weight of the headsets. A friend of mine has a Vive and I'm very impressed with it, but I don't think I'd play it enough to justify buying it myself (most of the games he has can be completed in an hour or two).

Its true, the headset are comfortable enough for me, but I can see folks not enjoying their bulk. Also, the cords have to go! Wireless is the way forward for sure! Basically what I want from the next generation of VR is:

 

Larger field of view

3K per eye ( I want 4K, but lets get real about the GPU that could run this and realize we will likely not see it until 2020.)

Integrated sound and microphone (Vive and OR each have some of these features)

Wireless HMD

Better focal length controls for lenses 

Software support to be able to see non VR objects represented in VR, like keyboards & Mouse or game pad

 

 

 

 

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IMO...

Gen 2 will be wireless, maybe slightly higher resolution 

Gen 3 will be smaller/lighter, 3-4k per eye, RGB style screens instead of garbage pentile

 

Also, either Gen 2 or 3 will offer room scale and tracking without the need for cameras or base stations (they'll be part of the headset).

 

I'm doubting if Gen 2 will be worth the upgrade for the majority of people, Gen 3 certainly will, though. (Again, purely my opinion based on what I've been reading/seeing).

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1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

IMO...

Gen 2 will be wireless, maybe slightly higher resolution 

Gen 3 will be smaller/lighter, 3-4k per eye, RGB style screens instead of garbage tentile

 

Also, either Gen 2 or 3 will offer room scale and tracking without the need for cameras or base stations (they'll be part of the headset).

 

I'm doubting if Gen 2 will be worth the upgrade for the majority of people, Gen 3 certainly will, though. (Again, purely my opinion based on what I've been reading/seeing).

 

I think you're on the right track. This article has some really good stuff from Gabe: https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/2/15/14616192/gabe-newell-interview-vr

 

The focus right now is on improving the hardware. Newell says the early-market reliance on mobile phone-based display technology is a barrier that's about to be broken.

"There are a bunch of obvious things coming down the technology pipeline. Headsets are going to get lighter, they're going to get smaller, the resolution is going to go up. These aren't speculative things, these are all basically finished in terms of everybody in the headset industry knows how to do them. It's just a question of getting the products out.

"The current headsets are essentially piggybacking off phone panels. Now people are looking at display technologies that aren't bastardized phone technologies. Once you start building something just for a VR headset you can go much faster than the phones.

"We're going to go from this weird position where VR right now is kind of low res, to being in a place where VR is higher res than just about anything else, with much higher refresh rates than you're going to see on either desktops or phones. You'll see the VR industry leapfrogging any other display technology. You'll start to see that happening in 2018 and 2019 when you'll be talking about incredibly high resolutions."

 
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46 minutes ago, Dexterryu said:

 Newell says the early-market reliance on mobile phone-based display technology is a barrier that's about to be broken.

 

Yep. These PenTile displays were meant for phones/tablets that are tiny and held away from your face and used to save money, not for VR displays that are less than an inch from each eye. The subpixel count from these pentile screens is what causes the screen door effect. Upping the resolution will make the lines "thinner", yes, but it will also cause more of them due to more pixels with that extra space between each subpixel. Potentially, there's a chance of higher resolution making the screen door effect even more annoying and noticeable with a pentile display.

 

PSVR got it right by using RGB, which is why there's no screen door effect, however, that's countered by the low resolution they had to use due to hardware limitations... so, you wind up with no screen door, but a sense as if someone smeared a thin layer of vaseline on goggles that you're wearing. If PSVR used the same screen resolution as Vive/Oculus with it's RGB screen, it'd be amazing.

 

EDIT: Honestly, I believe the popular opinion of "we need higher res screens for VR ASAP" is incorrect. While higher resolution is certainly desirable, the first issue to address is removing the pentile screens for a traditional RGB (or equivalent in terms of subpixel count) styled screen - the difference would be night and day compared to the current displays, more so than only a bump in resolution, IMO. (Obviously, going with both RGB and higher-res would be most desirable, but if it came down to only having one, moving away from pentile is paramount) 

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So far, my only experience with VR has been a 15 minute demo with an HTC Vive -- the screen door effect really bothered me (but went unnoticed by the non-gaming folks I was with).

 

I really believe in the long-term future of VR -- but I can't justify jumping in at the moment:

1)  The headsets are going to get better -- whether it is with better displays (such as the RGB displays Sony uses), better controllers (whether they are the "knuckle controllers", or something else) and wireless connectivity

2)  There isn't enough great software that is compelling me to spend the current $$$ premium, and then have to buy a better headset in two years time

 

I have to agree with you @Spork3245 -- resolution probably isn't the answer.  On top of the points you've made, higher resolution brings the requirement of more GPU power.  And I would prefer the extra GPU power being used for improved IQ, rather than improved resolution.

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1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Yep. These PenTile displays were meant for phones/tablets that are tiny and held away from your face and used to save money, not for VR displays that are less than an inch from each eye. The subpixel count from these pentile screens is what causes the screen door effect. Upping the resolution will make the lines "thinner", yes, but it will also cause more of them due to more pixels with that extra space between each subpixel. Potentially, there's a chance of higher resolution making the screen door effect even more annoying and noticeable with a pentile display.

 

PSVR got it right by using RGB, which is why there's no screen door effect, however, that's countered by the low resolution they had to use due to hardware limitations... so, you wind up with no screen door, but a sense as if someone smeared a thin layer of vaseline on goggles that you're wearing. If PSVR used the same screen resolution as Vive/Oculus with it's RGB screen, it'd be amazing.

 

EDIT: Honestly, I believe the popular opinion of "we need higher res screens for VR ASAP" is incorrect. While higher resolution is certainly desirable, the first issue to address is removing the pentile screens for a traditional RGB (or equivalent in terms of subpixel count) styled screen - the difference would be night and day compared to the current displays, more so than only a bump in resolution, IMO. (Obviously, going with both RGB and higher-res would be most desirable, but if it came down to only having one, moving away from pentile is paramount) 

 

I think you and Gabe basically said the same thing... which is to get off of phone based displays and start developing VR specific displays which now that VR is out in open sourced we should see (or at least I'm hoping).

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Let's also be real—VR isn't that great with a mouse and keyboard. But aiming with the motion controllers is also way less fun for certain things (first person shooters) since you can't really line up shots with ironsights like in real life. Moving in these games is also unnatural with the controllers. We're probably only going to see VR be worth it for certain kinds of games where your body would remain motionless (racing, mech combat, fighter pilot games, etc). For FPS games a mouse and keyboard will never be beaten for speed and accuracy, I think.

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1 hour ago, Dexterryu said:

 

I think you and Gabe basically said the same thing... which is to get off of phone based displays and start developing VR specific displays which now that VR is out in open sourced we should see (or at least I'm hoping).

 

I know we are, that's why I started with "Yep" after the quoted section from Gabe and then elaborated. :P 

 

44 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's also be real—VR isn't that great with a mouse and keyboard.

 

 

VR is great with a gamepad. I hate how virtually everything is first-person based. Regular action games or platformers are amazing in VR due to the sense of scale and depth added in. The Witcher 3 with the same third person camera would be phenomenal in VR. Devs need to stop trying to make everything first person and just patch in support for current games.

 

44 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

But aiming with the motion controllers is also way less fun for certain things (first person shooters) since you can't really line up shots with ironsights like in real life.

1

 

You're playing the wrong games, friend. ;) 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

 

I know we are, that's why I started with "Yep" after the quoted section from Gabe and then elaborated. :P 

 

 

VR is great with a gamepad. I hate how virtually everything is first-person based. Regular action games or platformers are amazing in VR due to the sense of scale and depth added in. The Witcher 3 with the same third person camera would be phenomenal in VR. Devs need to stop trying to make everything first person and just patch in support for current games.

 

 

You're playing the wrong games, friend. ;) 

 

 

 

Oh I know, lol! But the games I enjoy the most (FPS, strategy) will not benefit from VR, really.

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4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Oh I know, lol! But the games I enjoy the most (FPS, strategy) will not benefit from VR, really.

 

They will once they figure out movement in regards to FPS (play Onward). Strategy with VR will be amazing, actually, even with mouse and keyboard, for the reasons I mentioned for action games/platformers (depth, sense of scale). Out of Ammo is a great RTS already, actually :P 

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15 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Oh I know, lol! But the games I enjoy the most (FPS, strategy) will not benefit from VR, really.

 

Have you tried Super Hot on Vive? Shooting on that game is pretty good. The vive motion controls are pretty spot on. I do think it would be a pain in the but to do aim down site sniping but for hand guns/shot guns it's damned good.

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21 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

3K per eye ( I want 4K, but lets get real about the GPU that could run this and realize we will likely not see it until 2020.)

 

I'm not sure 3K would be viable with the current rendering style either. But if they added eye tracking + foveated rendering to the next gen, I think both 3K and 4K would be plausible.

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28 minutes ago, mikechorney said:

When I looked at it it was $400 w/o the card, or $500 with the card.

 

At $400 with a $100 card, I would have pulled the trigger....

 

I couldve sworn when I looked at it, it was 400 with the GC.

 

I noticed that its not available from Amazon and only 3rd party sellers now. That might be why. Probably sold out. 

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Just now, atom631 said:

 

I couldve sworn when I looked at it, it was 400 with the GC.

 

I noticed that its not available from Amazon and only 3rd party sellers now. That might be why. Probably sold out. 

I must have looked at it at the wrong time...

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Don't do it the shit is dead and will not make it another two years.

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