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SoberChef

A Storm of Spoilers - Game of Thrones: Season 7

229 posts in this topic

Only ONE MORE WEEK!!!! They hype is beyond real, who's chomping at the bit for this next 168 +/- hours to pass by!?

 

1 minute ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

This thread is open spoilers. Updating the title to reflect as such because really why would you come in here if you didn't want to discuss the latest episode?

 

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Wow, really? That soon. I'm alright with this. For some reason this was still really far off in my head.

 

Will this be the spoiler or no spoilers thread?

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33 minutes ago, Wild said:

Wow, really? That soon. I'm alright with this. For some reason this was still really far off in my head.

 

Will this be the spoiler or no spoilers thread?

 

This is the non-book reader thread with spoilers 

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14 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

This is the non-book reader thread with spoilers 

Meh, there won't ever be another book. The show is now canon. 

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I'm fine with open spoilers after the episode has aired. Just know coming into the thread anytime after a new episode has been shown, expect to see spoilers for it. 

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I believe the books still contain some info ahead of the show, and also some story lines that were dropped that may reappear again. Maybe just mark anything from the books that isn't in the show, even from prior seasons, and then let this thread be open spoilers for everything that has aired?

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10 hours ago, Emblazon said:

That's one week to watch the first two seasons of The Last Kingdom. :sun:

 

I liked season 1 a lot, but season 2 was a notch above.  The show does an excellent job of building up meaningful villains then giving the us resolutions without dragging anything out, with each season feeling like a completed story. The big time skips are also welcome. I feel like most shows would have taken at least two seasons to tell the story in one season of Last Kingdom.

 

Great stuff for Thrones fans. One of my favorite things currently airing.

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1 hour ago, Wild said:

 

I liked season 1 a lot, but season 2 was a notch above.  The show does an excellent job of building up meaningful villains then giving the us resolutions without dragging anything out, with each season feeling like a completed story. The big time skips are also welcome. I feel like most shows would have taken at least two seasons to tell the story in one season of Last Kingdom.

 

Great stuff for Thrones fans. One of my favorite things currently airing.

 

There's a good reason for that. It should actually feel like two complete stories per season (which it really does in season 2). Each season covers two books, with each book spanning 4 episodes. 

 

Thankfully, there are currently 10 books, and it starts to get REALLY good come book 7. :sun:

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8 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

THIS. The show is well past the last book so...

 

I'm confident there will be at least one book that he finishes (probably in late 2018, I think). What happens to the 'canon' when that book is considerably different than the last and current seasons? To me, the books' versions of events will be canon over the show. The show has done a few things better than the books, but overall the books have handled things much better (especially as the two plots have diverged).

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1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I'm confident there will be at least one book that he finishes (probably in late 2018, I think). What happens to the 'canon' when that book is considerably different than the last and current seasons? To me, the books' versions of events will be canon over the show. The show has done a few things better than the books, but overall the books have handled things much better (especially as the two plots have diverged).

 

The books will be canon for the books and the show will be canon for the show. The problem is that the show caught up and passed the books... that hasn't happened with Walking Dead or other adaptations. I've read the books and while the books go into more detail than the shows in some regards, the show is JUST as good as the book if not better in some ways... again, unlike The Walking Dead whose source material is FAR superior to its television adaptation. Most folks who were introduced to GOT by the show won't even be able to GET through the books. They are NOT the best written (from a craft standpoint) novels in the world. I had to FORCE myself through a couple of them and even fans of the books aren't really big on the fourth one. I had no problem with it personally, but the third book is easily the best one.

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I think about the only thing the show has done better is arguably the biggest and most well known scene in the series--The Red Wedding. It was good in the book, but it was spectacular on the show. 

 

For most everything else I've more or less preferred the book rendition. 

 

I will agree that the books can be rather scattered and dry. Even in audiobook format they can be a chore to get through. 

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13 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

I think about the only thing the show has done better is arguably the biggest and most well known scene in the series--The Red Wedding. It was good in the book, but it was spectacular on the show. 

 

For most everything else I've more or less preferred the book rendition. 

 

I will agree that the books can be rather scattered and dry. Even in audiobook format they can be a chore to get through. 

 

The Mountain and the Viper battle, as good as it was in the books, was better on the show.

The Battle of Black Water, as good as it was in the books, was better on the show.

Khal Drogo is wounded on the show in a much different way than he is in the books... the show handled it better (in my opinion)

Hardhome isn't even IN the books.

The Battle at the Wall was better on the show... (Jon Snow is MUCH more active in that battle on the show than in the books)

I could go on and on. This most recent season was CLASSIC television, the best season to date and one of the best seasons of television ever, and had a lot of memorable scenes but its hard to compare those to the books because we haven't seen them in book form yet.

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2 hours ago, Emblazon said:

 

There's a good reason for that. It should actually feel like two complete stories per season (which it really does in season 2). Each season covers two books, with each book spanning 4 episodes. 

 

Thankfully, there are currently 10 books, and it starts to get REALLY good come book 7. :sun:

 

That makes a lot of sense. Glad they are doing the series in 5 seasons of 10. I also, given how much I have enjoyed S1 & S2, love the fact you think S4 is were it starts to get really good. :lol: That means the quality should stay in tact or improve. After Thrones and Stranger Things, a new season of Lost Kingdom is my most wanted list.

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8 minutes ago, Wild said:

 

That makes a lot of sense. Glad they are doing the series in 5 seasons of 10. I also, given how much I have enjoyed S1 & S2, love the fact you think S4 is were it starts to get really good. :lol: That means the quality should stay in tact or improve. After Thrones and Stranger Things, a new season of Lost Kingdom is my most wanted list.

 

Oh, I love every second of the show, and love the books even more. The upcoming time jumps for season 4 will be interesting. So much happens and I'm not spoiling any of it. :)

 

And @skillzdadirecta, I agree about this past season being amazing, especially since the season before was, for me, a huge letdown. 

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14 hours ago, Emblazon said:

Meh, there won't ever be another book. The show is now canon. 

Ridiculous. The only canon is that established by the author, like any work.

 

there will also certainly be another book. The question is if he survives long enough to finish the seventh. 

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SOlid Season 6 recap for those who don't have time to rewatch between now and Sunday:

 

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16 hours ago, Emblazon said:

Meh, there won't ever be another book. The show is now canon. 

 

Arguments about future books belong in the book readers thread. 

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The show is now so far past the books, I can't even imagine why I would talk about it. But people obviously will. I'm fine with there being just one thread for the show this year. And yeah, just mark "comparisons to the book" discussions.

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4 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

The Mountain and the Viper battle, as good as it was in the books, was better on the show.

The Battle of Black Water, as good as it was in the books, was better on the show.

Khal Drogo is wounded on the show in a much different way than he is in the books... the show handled it better (in my opinion)

Hardhome isn't even IN the books.

The Battle at the Wall was better on the show... (Jon Snow is MUCH more active in that battle on the show than in the books)

I could go on and on. This most recent season was CLASSIC television, the best season to date and one of the best seasons of television ever, and had a lot of memorable scenes but its hard to compare those to the books because we haven't seen them in book form yet.

 

I agree that the show handled most of those well. I would say that the show could have handled Blackwater even better had it included the chain. The chain demonstrated Tyrion's cunning.

 

And for all that the show has done better (mostly action), it has really done most of the character building much worse. Jaime Lannister is a completely different person by this point in the books (and much more interesting). Tyrion's arc is almost much better in the books. The showrunners are clearly too afraid to show how dark Tyrion can get since he is a fan favourite. But that eliminates his arc. Daenerys is also worse in the show, though she is also bad in the books. But in the books it all makes sense, especially the change in how the pit battle went down with Drogon showing up. The show made her seem like a better person there, whereas the books make it pretty clear she is turning into a tyrant and is getting her comeuppance. 

 

The books have also eliminated good characters in crappy ways, and have completely ruined some characters like Stannis. Stannis was quite funny in the books (his dry humour was amazing), and they changed him from being an honourable man who placed family above everything...to a man who burns his daughter? In the books he hates the Red Woman, and goes so far as to almost kill her, making it clear she is only a tool to him. In the show he's pussy-whipped. It's really sad.

 

So yes, the show is good in its own way, as its own thing...but if you value anything except raw action, then the books did it better. They aren't perfect, but they are better. The first three in particular are amazing.

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46 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I agree that the show handled most of those well. I would say that the show could have handled Blackwater even better had it included the chain. The chain demonstrated Tyrion's cunning.

 

And for all that the show has done better (mostly action), it has really done most of the character building much worse. Jaime Lannister is a completely different person by this point in the books (and much more interesting). Tyrion's arc is almost much better in the books. The showrunners are clearly too afraid to show how dark Tyrion can get since he is a fan favourite. But that eliminates his arc. Daenerys is also worse in the show, though she is also bad in the books. But in the books it all makes sense, especially the change in how the pit battle went down with Drogon showing up. The show made her seem like a better person there, whereas the books make it pretty clear she is turning into a tyrant and is getting her comeuppance. 

 

The books have also eliminated good characters in crappy ways, and have completely ruined some characters like Stannis. Stannis was quite funny in the books (his dry humour was amazing), and they changed him from being an honourable man who placed family above everything...to a man who burns his daughter? In the books he hates the Red Woman, and goes so far as to almost kill her, making it clear she is only a tool to him. In the show he's pussy-whipped. It's really sad.

 

So yes, the show is good in its own way, as its own thing...but if you value anything except raw action, then the books did it better. They aren't perfect, but they are better. The first three in particular are amazing.

 

Let's not forget how terrible the Dorne arc was.

 

It's quite humorous that due to a character omission, a paramour is now the head of the house.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, 69los said:

 

Let's not forget how terrible the Dorne arc was.

 

It's quite humorous that due to a character omission, a paramour is now the head of the house.

 

 

 

Yeah none of that makes sense. Obviously Dorne doesn't really matter any more in the show...but that's another glaring flaw. The entire reason Oberyn Martell died to The Mountain was to set up the story that Dorne is secretly working against the crown. This setup will pay off in the books with the invasion that started in book 5 (from a character that doesn't even exist in the show) as Dorne will probably declare for him after he takes one of the Martell girls in marriage. Or they will declare for Daenerys and she will fight the other invader, creating conflict in the south. Something like that.

 

In the show Oberyn didn't have a purpose, overall-arc wise. He was done very well, don't get me wrong. But the show seems to be doing things because they are cool, not because they will pay off even later on. The fact that they omitted the invasion of Westeros by the character they cut means that Dorne wasn't ever really needed in the first place, and Oberyn was only used as Tyrion's champion.

 

Say what you will about the books being a bit slow (in books 4 and 5), but it's hard (or impossible, maybe) to find any event that has happened in them where you can't trace back the reason to something that happened earlier. In the show people seem to act almost randomly in order to get from plot point A to plot point B. It's bad writing. That's why the final 2 seasons are going to be so short, when I bet Martin will have a lot more material in the books (assuming he finishes them).

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1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I agree that the show handled most of those well. I would say that the show could have handled Blackwater even better had it included the chain. The chain demonstrated Tyrion's cunning.

 

Care to talk about the chain? (And in the spirit of the thread this year, might as well throw it in a spoiler tag.)

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18 minutes ago, Wild said:

 

Care to talk about the chain? (And in the spirit of the thread this year, might as well throw it in a spoiler tag.)

 

Sure, I've spoiler'd it below:

 

Spoiler

In the books Tyrion works on a secret project in the weeks before Stannis invades, and uses up almost all of the blacksmiths in the area. When the Barratheon fleet arrives in the bay, they are met with little resistance. Joffrey's fleet is much smaller, and retreats further up the Blackwater Rush (river), passing by two newly-constructed watchtowers on either side. Emboldened, Stannis' fleet pursues. Then, a few of Joffrey's ships are lit up and it's realized that the water has been filled with wildfire by Tyrion, setting ships in both fleets aflame (unlike the dumb single ship lit by Bronn). Realizing they may be doomed, they try and retreat out the bay, only to find that the towers were home to a giant chain which has now been lifted across the mouth of the rush, trapping the fleets. As a result, the two fleets burn and everyone dies, with the exception of 30 or 40 galleys holding some of Stannis' host. The rest of the battle on the land goes much the same.

 

Tyrion receives almost no credit for single-handedly destroying the fleet and saving the city.

 

This version has Tyrion undertaking a massive plan to create this engineering marvel, as well as sacrificing hundreds or thousands of his nephew's forces for the sake of the city.

 

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33 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Sure, I've spoiler'd it below:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Regarding the chain

 

Spoiler

That was something that could only work in the books. I couldn't even visualized how that worked in the books as it was written. 

 

The show showed Tyrion's cleverness plenty without it in a much less goofy way. Now the whole Dorne thing? Yes that worked better in the books but let's be real... that book, the fourth, is WIDELY regarded as the worse in the series which is probably why the show took such license with it in the first place. But yes i agree, The books handled that whole storyline much better than the show.

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