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CayceG

Oh my fuck - Trump picks Exxon CEO Tillerson for SECSTATE - Tillerson DOES know Putin

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Jason    5,984
36 minutes ago, SilentWorld said:

What's the realpolitik reason for Russia trying to get far right wing parties into power? 

 

Because instead of getting people who want to place sanctions on Russia they're trying to get people into power who would have made more money in the last 20 years if we didn't have sanctions on Russia? Because they wanted an administration that would leave them the fuck alone while they do their thing in Eastern Europe and along the rest of their border?

 

This seems neither particularly confusing nor particularly complicated. The only perceived wildcard might be that they had to tap into a vein of populism that's right-wing in order to get what they wanted, since I think Americans tend to think of populism as a left-wing phenomenon.

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Art Vandelay    1,142

Remember how much the US freaked out when Cuba went Red?

 

Thats how Russia feels as the west deliberately trys to 'open' the former soviet states.

 

The west has done this in many ways. Russia is merely responding to this in a similar manner. Accross E Europe the west has supported and funded groups directly and indirectly that have had a western orientation and were anti Russian.

 

Now Russia does the same.

 

Just look at Kosovo. That has become Russias blue print and excuse for its own endevours in 'liberating' oppressed areas.

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mikee002    31
5 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

I'm not saying Wikileaks doesn't count. I'm saying they're being used by the Russian government as a propaganda outlet. If they lived up to their mantra of being a beacon of free reporting and government transparency, they'd get shit from Russia's inner workings and publish it. They haven't. Ukrainian hackers have been able to, though.

 

Russia isn't the anti-christ, but they are actively attempting to (and succeeding in) influencing people and governments. Wikileaks is just a part of that. 

 

 

I think that's part of it, but Russia can't be discounted from having some involvement in the overall change in public opinion. They've supported far right political groups all across Europe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/12103602/America-to-investigate-Russian-meddling-in-EU.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/04/how-vladimir-putin-feeds-europe-s-rabid-right.html

 

Everything that happened happened because the ingredients were already there. Russia just turned up the heat on the stove. 

 

 

You really need to come back with better articles (I did read then), just look at the link titles "America to "investigate" meddling in EU". It is another maybe and it sounds like a hangover from Hillary failed campaign somewhat comprised of blaming Russian for everything in the hope some mud sticks in an attempt to cover her own security failings.

 

The 2nd one "Putin feeds Europes "Rabid" right". Well that is loaded with an agenda before you start. As if people concerned about safety, schooling and housing are part of some Rabid pack only able to vote when Putin recommends a candidate.

 

If Russia had paid into Europe's Right wing the same way the Saudis and Merkle's Germany had paid into Hilary's Campaign than the Russians should be getting a refund about now. Also think about all that Saudi money pouring to Hillary's coffers while Obama and the Saudis  are fighting a war by proxy with Russia in Syria arming who knows who along the way. 

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CayceG    2,498

If you read the articles, how about responding to them instead of the headlines.

 

And enough with the whataboutism. You wanted examples of Russian support for right wing political groups, I provided them. We're not discussing Saudi donations to the Clinton foundation.

 

And a proxy war? That's ridiculous. We were aiding the rebels before the Russians decided they wanted to fight. They say they're fighting ISIS, but they aren't attacking ISIS. They're bombing rebels in Aleppo. It's clear what the Russian aims are. And it isn't fighting ISIS.

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b_m_b_m_b_m    1,040
44 minutes ago, RicoFoley said:

 

Just need 2 (3?) Senators to actually vote no to make this abortion of a choice fall by the wayside. Let's see how much more than talk Rubio is once push comes to shove. (Not much more than talk, based on his endorsement of trump)

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mikee002    31
9 hours ago, CayceG said:

If you read the articles, how about responding to them instead of the headlines.

There is nothing in the 1st article that that is not expressed in the headline, there is no point quoting the whole article as you have already linked it, I am saying quite clearly the article is talking about an investigation "" American intelligence agencies are to conduct a major investigation into how the Kremlin is infiltrating political parties in Europe, it can be revealed"" Is the opening gambit and it does not get any better. You have  the whole of the web and the best you can do is "they will be conducting an investigation"? 

9 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

And enough with the whataboutism. You wanted examples of Russian support for right wing political groups, I provided them. We're not discussing Saudi donations to the Clinton foundation.

Let me quote your article  ""The refugee haters are united in one anti-immigration fist, including politicians from Austria, Hungary, Italy, Romania, and France, some of whom are known for their fascist if not indeed Nazi backgrounds. And Moscow is encouraging them every step of the way""  That is not an example but simply a "be pro immigrant or you are a nazi" narrative. 

9 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

And a proxy war? That's ridiculous. We were aiding the rebels before the Russians decided they wanted to fight. They say they're fighting ISIS, but they aren't attacking ISIS. They're bombing rebels in Aleppo. It's clear what the Russian aims are. And it isn't fighting ISIS.

read this

 

 https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20150314-syria-proxy-war-not-civil-war/

 

I appreciate you made an effort with the links but to try and back them up when there is no substance or statement of fact is not good. You might not like my link but at least it is saying with no ambiguity. ""The conflict in Syria is a multi-proxy war in which international""  this is a statement of fact 

 

 

 

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CayceG    2,498

I pulled the first two things off Google I could find. I've told you about a lot of the involvement Russia has had in Europe. It's way more than winks, nods, and maybes. Are you denying the involvement in Ukraine? In Georgia? The support to right wing groups in Austria, Hungary, and Germany? The coup attempt in Montenegro? The naval infiltrations into Swedish waters?

 

Our former ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, is quite outspoken about the things he's seen in his time in Russia, and in the years since. He's active on twitter and is a great first hand resource. https://twitter.com/McFaul

 

I don't want to litigate individual instances unless I have to, but in the aggregate, Russia is definitely on the move in terms of expanding their influence. The cost of that is a weakening of the liberal democratic order. 

 

 

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mikee002    31

Well we could argue that Russia has lost influence in Europe after the fall of the Berlin wall but I digress, If I agree that Russia is not a nice place than perhaps you might agree that they are at least worth talking to and trying to keep on side as in "keep your friend close but your enemies closer". Interesting times

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Snaynay1    685
21 hours ago, SilentWorld said:

Oh ok makes sense. 

 

I guess it just seems that right right wingers are usually more hawkish than left wingers but maybe that's not true. Like, Trump is pro-Russia but the republicans aren't. 

That is largely a myth.

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GuyWhoPostsThings    5,145

If just three Senate Republicans defect, Rex Tillerson’s expected nomination as secretary of state would be dead. Since he has not officially announced his selection, blowback from leading hawks on the right over the ExxonMobil CEO’s ties to Vladimir Putin could prompt Donald Trump to go another direction.

 

Quote

Terrible timing for Tillerson: NBC’s Andrea Mitchell scooped Saturday that the 64-year-old had won “The Apprentice: Foggy Bottom edition,” just hours after The Post revealed that the CIA had concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system. Three people close to the transition team confirmed Saturday afternoon to The Post that Trump is expected to name Tillerson.

 

There's a lot of good information there: Republicans are trying to test Trump to see how he reacts, and Rubio, McCain, Graham, Flake and Paul would probably not be guaranteed yes votes. Or at least the last four. Rubio could go either way since he's not as principled as he pretends to be.

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Jason    5,984
21 minutes ago, CayceG said:

And here I thought there was actual thought put into these picks. Silly me. 

 

 

You're from the south, want Agriculture? 

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Ghost_MH    517

Let's bump this. Is anyone watching this? This guy didn't know if he'd be willing to sanction countries that have attacked the US. Rubio is in disbelief.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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Chairslinger    3,904
6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Let's bump this. Is anyone watching this? This guy didn't know if he'd be willing to sanction countries that have attacked the US. Rubio is in disbelief.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

 

In light of the past 24 hours, it really doesn't look good that Trump's SoS pick is on stage basically answering every question with, "I reserve the right to give Vlady a big soul kiss whenever I want.".

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