Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director

[Jason]

Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director

VARIETY.COM

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Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a set in New Mexico, accidentally killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza.

 

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Baldwin is a co-producer on the film and plays infamous outlaw Rust, whose 13-year-old grandson is convicted of an accidental murder.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Jesus Christ - how does that happen decades after what happened to Brandon Lee?!?

[CitizenVectron]

It's horrible. I can't imagine the guilt Baldwin will be feeling (even though he deserves none). It's time to end guns with blanks.

[Slug]

7 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Jesus Christ - how does that happen decades after what happened to Brandon Lee?!?

 

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

It's horrible. I can't imagine the guilt Baldwin will be feeling (even though he deserves none). It's time to end guns with blanks.

 

At this point they should just be using caps for sound and adding CG gunfire.  Blanks are unnecessary outside of budgetary concerns.

[Keyser_Soze]

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Jesus Christ - how does that happen decades after what happened to Brandon Lee?!?

 

At this point people in the movies now weren't even born when that happened.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

At this point people in the movies now weren't even born when that happened.

Alec Baldwin was!

[johnny]

jfc. what an awful situation that could have been avoided 

[Fizzzzle]

5 minutes ago, Slug said:

 

 

At this point they should just be using caps for sound and adding CG gunfire.  Blanks are unnecessary outside of budgetary concerns.

Eh, I wouldn't say that. The recoil and the bang provided from blanks add an element of realism that you don't get from other means. Like the slight flinch in someone's face when they fire an actual gun. Also a lot of people suck at CG muzzle flashes. Using airsoft guns with added effects isn't the same.

 

Still, this is an awful situation. Goes to show that there is a risk any time guns are involved, even when everyone knows what they're doing.

[Ghost_MH]

Well shit. How did this happen? How are there not multiple people making sure everything is fine? How is Alec Baldwin pointing even a supposedly safe gun at another person and being allowed to fire? I'll blame that part on the director.

[Bacon]

Messed up, man. 

 

 for Hutchins. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

31 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Well shit. How did this happen? How are there not multiple people making sure everything is fine? How is Alec Baldwin pointing even a supposedly safe gun at another person and being allowed to fire? I'll blame that part on the director.

Yeah I'm thinking what process is there to make sure every gun only has blanks or whatever? Like I know in heavy industry you have multiple levels of lockout and tag out for getting inside equipment, permitting processes for entering enclosed spaces and the like, I just wonder what film sets have to verify that these are 'safe'

[mclumber1]

In some European countries, tear gas pistols are sold that look and feel like real firearms that fire real bullets, but the barrel has obstructions in it that would prevent a bullet from travelling down it, and instead fire out a concentrated stream of tear gas.  Maybe those should be used on movie sets instead?

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Yeah I'm thinking what process is there to make sure every gun only has blanks or whatever? Like I know in heavy industry you have multiple levels of lockout and tag out for getting inside equipment, permitting processes for entering enclosed spaces and the like, I just wonder what film sets have to verify that these are 'safe'

 

Whoever was in charge of props likely messed up in combination with some blame going to the director. Someone is telling him where to aim the gun and also not making sure where Alec isn't being asked to point his gun at another person. At the same time, I'm thinking about the Brandon Lee incident where whoever was in charge of that gun never made sure the barrel was free of obstructions before loading it with blanks and having actors fire.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Whoever was in charge of props likely messed up in combination with some blame going to the director. Someone is telling him where to aim the gun and also not making sure where Alec isn't being asked to point his gun at another person. At the same time, I'm thinking about the Brandon Lee incident where whoever was in charge of that gun never made sure the barrel was free of obstructions before loading it with blanks and having actors fire.

 

Why a Gun Loaded With Blanks Can Still Kill You

GIZMODO.COM

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The phrase "shooting blanks" has passed into colloquialism. But, literally speaking, what does it mean to shoot blanks? And why can people who get shot with blank ammunition still die...

 

[johnny]

47 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Eh, I wouldn't say that. The recoil and the bang provided from blanks add an element of realism that you don't get from other means. Like the slight flinch in someone's face when they fire an actual gun. Also a lot of people suck at CG muzzle flashes. Using airsoft guns with added effects isn't the same.

 

Still, this is an awful situation. Goes to show that there is a risk any time guns are involved, even when everyone knows what they're doing.

i have confidence that we could develop the technology to make it look realistic with a fake gun 

[Ghost_MH]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Why a Gun Loaded With Blanks Can Still Kill You

GIZMODO.COM

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The phrase "shooting blanks" has passed into colloquialism. But, literally speaking, what does it mean to shoot blanks? And why can people who get shot with...

 

 

Yeah, blanks aren't exactly safe by any measure. CG muzzle flashes can be really good. Just use a cap gun if you want the bangs to help everyone in set get their timing right. It doesn't have to sound real. Not like the actually sound of the gun wasn't going to get replaced in post anyway.

 

 

[Xbob42]

Yeah, blanks fire shrapnel and shit that can do some serious damage. They're not just magic sound bullets.

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Yeah, blanks fire shrapnel and shit that can do some serious damage. They're not just magic sound bullets.

 

The article cites an actor holding a gun filled with blanks up to his head and it caved his skull in from the pressure when he fired. 

[Xbob42]

I was watching this video a few days ago:

 

 

Dude's popping balloons several yards away with just the pressure and/or shrapnel from the blanks like it's nothing. Imagine up close.

Also that man is still insanely fast. Like, unbelievably fast.

[Fizzzzle]

Death or serious injury in recent movies:

F9 (2021): Stuntman Joe Watts sustained a head injury after a fall and had to be put in a coma.

Motherless Brooklyn (2019): A fire broke out on set and a fireman died.

LA's Finest (2019): Showrunner Brandon Sonnier was seriously injured in a car stunt gone wrong, resulting in partial amputation of his right leg

The Dirt (2019): A crew member suffered a shock while de-rigging a set, resulting in serious burns over 50% of his body

Ghostland (2018): Taylor Hickson crashed through a glass door, ended up requiring multiple facial reconstruction surgeries.

Deadpool 2 (2018): Stuntwoman SJ Harris died after a motorcycle stunt went bad.

The Walking Dead (2017): Stuntman John Bernecker died after falling 20 feet off a balcony.

Resident Evil: The Final Chapter (2017): 2 of them here: Stuntwoman Olivia Jackson crashed into a camera arm during a motorcycle stunt, she was in a coma for 2 weeks, suffered a degloved face and a paralyzed left arm that had to be amputated. Another crewmember was crushed to death by a Hummer that slid off a platform he was operating.

American Made (2017): Two stunt pilots were killed in a plane crash.

 

 

Point is, people getting seriously, permanently injured or killed while filming movies happens pretty often, it's just most of the time it's stuntmen and people kind of shrug it off. It was a tragic accident, and blanks are dangerous and should be treated with the utmost of caution (assuming that's what this was and not a situation where live rounds accidentally got put in the gun or something like that), but saying "no one should ever use blanks again in a movie" is kind of an overreaction, in my opinion. Guns+big name actor grab headlines. The other 6 people that died filming movies that I just mentioned never garnered any attention, but you're not going to hear anyone say that we should ban stunts with vehicles.

[Ghost_MH]

8 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I was watching this video a few days ago:

 

 

Dude's popping balloons several yards away with just the pressure and/or shrapnel from the blanks like it's nothing. Imagine up close.

Also that man is still insanely fast. Like, unbelievably fast.

 

All I could think is three things. One, that dude is very confident in himself. Two, holy shit he's fast. Three, that camera name shouldn't be downrange of that gun, even if he is really good and shooting blanks.

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Three, that camera name shouldn't be downrange of that gun, even if he is really good and shooting blanks.

 

What's the worst that could happen? 

[skillzdadirecta]

24 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I was watching this video a few days ago:

 

 

Dude's popping balloons several yards away with just the pressure and/or shrapnel from the blanks like it's nothing. Imagine up close.

Also that man is still insanely fast. Like, unbelievably fast.

I call bullshit.

[Xbob42]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

I call bullshit.

I dunno. Near the end, when they slow it down you can just barely see/hear him firing two shots when at full speed you're 100% sure he only fired one. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how some redneck gunslinger in the 80s would be able to fool news crews, the Guinness World Record folks, huge crowds, etc, for decades without ever being caught.

 

https://mtstandard.com/news/local/fast-draw-sharp-shooter-bob-munden-of-butte-dies-of-heart-attack/article_54842c70-43f9-11e2-94af-001a4bcf887a.html

Especially since he was also "a master gun smith who developed groundbreaking methods of customizing to perfection the beloved .45 caliber single action revolver and other guns."

Even without the accuracy element, the speed at which he draws and fires is unreal.

[skillzdadirecta]

He's fast that's for damn sure... My spidey sense went up when he fired and popped the two ballons damn near simultaneously. Anything is possible I guess...

[Brick]

2 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

The recoil and the bang provided from blanks add an element of realism that you don't get from other means. Like the slight flinch in someone's face when they fire an actual gun

 

Well there is this thing actors can do called acting. 

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

Point is, people getting seriously, permanently injured or killed while filming movies happens pretty often, it's just most of the time it's stuntmen and people kind of shrug it off. It was a tragic accident, and blanks are dangerous and should be treated with the utmost of caution (assuming that's what this was and not a situation where live rounds accidentally got put in the gun or something like that), but saying "no one should ever use blanks again in a movie" is kind of an overreaction, in my opinion. Guns+big name actor grab headlines. The other 6 people that died filming movies that I just mentioned never garnered any attention, but you're not going to hear anyone say that we should ban stunts with vehicles.

 

I think the difference is most people know or assume doing a stunt is dangerous. I think most people feel that guns in movies are safe so it's more shocking when a gun kills someone on set rather than someone doing a dangerous thing and dying. That being said, if this was your point, eliminating all ammunition from guns in movies would be an easy way to avoid this issue in the future. We have the technology to make guns convincing without firing real ammo. No one has to die during a stunt but stunts are inherently dangerous.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, Brick said:

 

Well there is this thing actors can do called acting. 

lol fair, but there's a certain level of physicality that you can't fake, and when you watch someone who IS faking it, you know.

 

In some ways, we've gotten around that while making movies. Like in real life, unless someone gets a direct shot to the brain, they are likely not just going to drop like a sack of potatoes when you shoot them one time. Yet most people have never seen someone get shot and movies have done that for forever, so it's accepted when it happens in a movie. But, for things like recoil, the way your shoulders and back tense as you brace for impact from a shot, the way your face flinches - those are not things that happen naturally when you're using fake props.

 

Some movies, like John Wick, get around this buy having the shootouts play out like a martial arts scene. The gun isn't as important as the movement, like the gun shots act more like beats between individual moves. The gunshot doesn't matter so much because your brain is already going "okay, onto the next one."

 

In general, there's a reason why we still use real stunts rather than CGI. You can tell CGI movement is fake most of the time.

[Fizzzzle]

4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I think the difference is most people know or assume doing a stunt is dangerous. I think most people feel that guns in movies are safe so it's more shocking when a gun kills someone on set rather than someone doing a dangerous thing and dying. That being said, if this was your point, eliminating all ammunition from guns in movies would be an easy way to avoid this issue in the future. We have the technology to make guns convincing without firing real ammo. No one has to die during a stunt but stunts are inherently dangerous.

I don't know if we really do. Even visual effects people will tell you that there's an absolute difference between firing an actual gun vs. firing an airsoft gun and putting all the effects in post. Maybe most people can't tell, who knows.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

lol fair, but there's a certain level of physicality that you can't fake, and when you watch someone who IS faking it, you know.

 

In some ways, we've gotten around that while making movies. Like in real life, unless someone gets a direct shot to the brain, they are likely not just going to drop like a sack of potatoes when you shoot them one time. Yet most people have never seen someone get shot and movies have done that for forever, so it's accepted when it happens in a movie. But, for things like recoil, the way your shoulders and back tense as you brace for impact from a shot, the way your face flinches - those are not things that happen naturally when you're using fake props.

 

Some movies, like John Wick, get around this buy having the shootouts play out like a martial arts scene. The gun isn't as important as the movement, like the gun shots act more like beats between individual moves. The gunshot doesn't matter so much because your brain is already going "okay, onto the next one."

 

In general, there's a reason why we still use real stunts rather than CGI. You can tell CGI movement is fake most of the time.

Even with stunts, there is still a level of faking without CG. Do you think actors are really hitting each other when they throw punches? ALL acting is faking. That's why it's acting. It's only noticeable when it's bad. I guarantee you that you couldn't tell the difference between a gun shot filmed with blanks vs well done one using CGI.  Most guns in real life don't even have the amount of muzzle flash you see in movies anyway.

[Fizzzzle]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Even with stunts, there is still a level of faking without CG. Do you think actors are really hitting each other when they throw punches? ALL acting is faking. That's why it's acting. It's only noticeable when it's bad. I guarantee you that you couldn't tell the difference between a gun shot filmed with blanks vs well done one using CGI.  Most guns in real life don't even have the amount of muzzle flash you see in movies anyway.

Re: gun shots, it really depends on the shot. Like I've said, certain movies like John Wick get around it by not making the shot itself the focal point of the scene. And if you listen to any stunt person or action movie actor, they will actually make contact when hitting each other, even if it's not full contact. There is a point where you can't really fake it, so you have to make up for it with pads, jump cuts, coreography, and other tools, but there isn't really a substitute for someone legitimately taking a fall or a boot to the chest.

[BloodyHell]

9 hours ago, Slug said:

 

 

At this point they should just be using caps for sound and adding CG gunfire.  Blanks are unnecessary outside of budgetary concerns.

Its about making the action slide and cartridge eject on handguns.  Percussion caps alone won't do it.

[Kal-El814]

6 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

I don't know if we really do. Even visual effects people will tell you that there's an absolute difference between firing an actual gun vs. firing an airsoft gun and putting all the effects in post. Maybe most people can't tell, who knows.

 

Here’s the thing… who fucking cares?

 

We have 2 people dead (assuming this hasn’t happened outside the US and we haven’t heard about it, 3 if you count the actor in the 80’s who shot himself in the head with “a blank” without realizing how dangerous this was) in this specific way because there’s a notion that guns need to look as “real” as possible where “real” has more to do with what people imagine guns to look like / the rule of cool than what is actually “real.”

 

John Wick is gun porn to a ridiculous degree, if we can accept that a suit can be bulletproof and that John can survive a 45 foot fall off a fucking building, maybe we don’t need guns loaded with something that could kill someone if a prop team misses something at the end of a 12 hour shift or an actor who’s been given props with different levels of danger throughout filing forgets which kind happens to be in their hand at a specific time.

 

9 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Its about making the action slide and cartridge eject on handguns.  Percussion caps alone won't do it.

 

Cartridge ejections are added in post all the time now.

[CitizenVectron]

I'm sure there's also ways to design a fake gun that could use a battery or a form of stored kinetic energy to pop shell casings out and provide a tiny kick. I mean, heck, I own nerf guns that give a bit of kick when internal mechanisms move after the trigger is pulled.

[Keyser_Soze]

According to the Corridor crew guys shooting a blank creates very little recoil so if realism is the thing you're going for, you don't get it from shooting guns with blanks in them.